Jon Cleland Host

  Duane, you wrote:

The article describes a single celled organism without any neural structure that is “pointing its ocelloid in different directions.”

Sure.  My wind chime out my window points in different directions.  It’s not hard at all to have a mechanism that points in different directions.  Then, a simple light sensitive spot on it will be…[Read more]

  Great to see Michael join us!   Duane, you wrote:

*****My key point was simply that consciousness does not require complex neural networks or a brain.  ******

But your example didn’t show this in any way.  Your example showed a cell that does something in response to it’s environment – the exact same thing a plane on autopilot does – changing it’…[Read more]

  Ed-     Looking over those, I don’t see anything that changes my earlier statement – that the closer these possible effects are looked at, the smaller and more elusive they become – a hallmark of something that isn’t real.      At the same time, I agree with you that we are unlikely to change each other’s minds, and it seems that in any case,…[Read more]

 Ed-   Sorry for the long delay – a lot going on in my life.         you wrote:

Personally, I’ve moved past such arguments – there is a TON of evidence regarding anomalous information transfer.  Others can wait for “extraordinary proof” to emerge that will put down even the most extreme skeptic, however I’ve grown impatient as the data mounts in fa…

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  Duane –       Thanks for supplying those.  It looks like things there are pretty well laid out.   ************************** Karen wrote:

Like Ursula, I feel that life evolved all on its own.  In fact I think that carbon nitrogen hydrogen etc _tend_ to form the molecules of life. (As a result of my personal research, which I will explain in a se…

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Duane wrote:  

Prof. Murakami also wrote that “The probability of living cell having come into existence by chance is so slender as to constitute a miracle: the odds would be something on the order of winning a million dollars in a lottery a million times in a row.” 

  Duane, first, could you please provide the source for that (full context), so we…[Read more]

 Ed wrote/clipped: *****According to this controversial fine-tuning hypothesis, life can only evolve in rare patches of the multiverse where the fundamental constants are fine-tuned to support the existence of life.****** There are many reasons why the physical constants don’t clearly suggest any kind fine-tuner or such.  We simply don’t know wh…[Read more]

 Ursula –    Thanks for yet again greatly helping our discussion by clarifying the points being made.   I’ve often wondered how to best explain to people how attractive and deadening the idea of dualism is.  It pervades our culture and stifles so much inquiry that it literally can’t be estimated.  I thought of a story, where a supporter of dual…[Read more]

 Ed and Jennifer-          What a great idea – to get Jennifer’s stories and such up in dome format!  I agree with Jennifer – the dome stuff is fantastic!  Let me know if there is any way that I can help.   Jennifer – that description of Cosmic Education sounds really cool. Ed – also thanks for the link about EBP.  I’m glad that more rigorous…[Read more]

  Wikipedia is OK in this case – it gives a good overview. However, the article is talking about philosophical naturalism.  You may remember that more than once I’ve asked if you understood the difference between philosophical materialism and methodological naturalism.  They aren’t the same thing.  We all – including you – operate under me…[Read more]

  Duane wrote:

My understanding of a “materialist” view of the universe is summarized in the following propositions (which I understand may not reflect your own):• 1 Measurable matter is the only reality and is essentially mechanical in its workings. 

 Is someone claiming that nothing else could exist?  I think you might be taking the fact that scie…[Read more]

  Duane wrote:

My understanding of a “materialist” view of the universe is summarized in the following propositions (which I understand may not reflect your own):• 1 Measurable matter is the only reality and is essentially mechanical in its workings. 

 Is someone claiming that nothing else could exist?  I think you might be taking the fact that scie…[Read more]

 Duane wrote:

My understanding of a “materialist” view of the universe is summarized in the following propositions (which I understand may not reflect your own):• 1 Measurable matter is the only reality and is essentially mechanical in its workings. 

 Is someone claiming that nothing else could exist?  I think you might be taking the fact that sci…[Read more]

It sounds like we are talking about “models”, not “assumptions”.  I don’t know of any scientists who make this list of assumptions.  Even the idea of “model” doesn’t fit for some of these.    

  Ed-   You wrote:

“Scientists are great at crafting theories and gathering evidence. But they are not generally very good storytellers.”

        Yes, exactly!  This is why our Deep Time Journey Network is so vitally important.  It reminds me of this very interesting podcast I listened to recently by Randy Olson, called “Don’t be such a scientist!”…[Read more]

 Yes, an interesting conversation.   Duane, I hope everything goes well with the move.  Since you indicated you don’t agree on the conclusion to your opening discussion about metabolism (sorry about my statement, since you ended up not agreeing), it sounds like we’ll need to get back to points ((A))- ((F)) if you want to return to that c…[Read more]

More later, but first I have to ask about this. Duane, you wrote:

If there now is consensus among origin-of-life researchers that RNA chains are too specialized to have been created as a product of random chemical reactions…..

  Are you claiming that such a consensus now exists?  If so, could you offer some support for that?  If not, then what d…[Read more]

Ed- great to meet you!               Interesting background.  I think our ability to tell stories is key to any culture, and I see the Universe Story as so essential to our future.  Your technology could be extremely helpful.  It’s great to connect here.  You can see some of my stuff by looking around online.  You’ll find that I feel a spiritual c…[Read more]